Cameron

"DBC" <dbc@dbc.com> wrote in message news:du8jt0$k3l$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> cameron,
> why bother corresponding with these people? They are jsut not worth it

Motly because they seem to believe that it hurts my feelings, and since I've
started they havent been abusing anyone else.

On topic posts have been up the last few days, their trolling time has been
wasted in deep threads towards me which are easily ignorable by others, and
we havent had anything like Unks "NLP's greatest flaw exposed the miners are
alive pattern" troll since he's been ranting in my direction.

Which leaves the question, why did I cut and paste his post to a new thread?

Phil is the only sane 3-d mind person I've encountered, he handles
objections with a continued non inflamatory restatement of his position and
ignores any questions that could draw him into debate. He also adds valuable
on toppic information.

Unk, whatever his real name is, and Tom seem to believe that abusing anyone
who questions them will be an effective strategy to drive people away who
question them. Not being the weak willed moron they keep ranting that I am,
I do enjoy the occasional vitriolic assult, and it's public airing.

That a belief system which is allegedly great for balancing the mind it's an
amazingly unbalanced performance, before anyone sends in their $70 I thought
they should see the results that it produces, at lest in Unk and Tom's case.

phill_coxon

> Unk, whatever his real name is, and Tom seem to believe that abusing anyone
> who questions them will be an effective strategy to drive people away who
> question them.

Now that's just nonsense really isn't it Cameron? Tom & Unka aren't
trying to drive anyone away.

Maybe they're just tired of some people who jump up and down making
accusations and demanding proof who haven't appeared to make any real
effort to look at the facts.

Out of interest I've just spent 10 minutes looking through the 3D Brain
archive. In this quick glance I've found 42 separate posts by Dr Ken
that document various physical and chemical processes in the brain.
Many of these articles directly and indirectly discuss these brain
processes in relation to Dr Ken's 3D Brain model and the 3D Mind
process.

For example, searching for articles by Ken with subjects including
"Factoid", "Brain Structure 101", "Cortex: Brain 101" will turn up
some relevant material.

So before you jump up and down claiming that Tom and Unkah simply abuse
anyone who questions them, please tell me how many of these articles
have you've actually taken the time to read as Tom has repeatedly
suggested?

> That a belief system which is allegedly great for balancing the mind it's an
> amazingly unbalanced performance, before anyone sends in their $70 I thought
> they should see the results that it produces, at lest in Unk and Tom's case.

Another misleading claim Cameron, which I don't appreciate.

Feel free to question Tom & Unkah's attitude, but please don't start
making baseless claims about the effectiveness of 3D Mind.

You have consistently failed to make an effort to discuss or examine
the issue of 3D Mind's effectiveness, even when I have encouraged you
to do so and have given provided you plenty of reference information.

Taking the phrase "balancing the mind" out of context and associating
it with your *perception* of Tom & Unkah's "unbalanced performance" and
"the results it produces" is simply your opinion and has nothing to do
with fact. Such an claim has no correlation with the effectiveness of
3D Mind. None. Period.

If you want to discuss the effectiveness of 3D Mind - let's do that.

In fact, I'd welcome that.

But please, don't make claims about the process simply because of your
personal dislike of Tom and Unkah's responses to your posts.

Fair enough?

DBC

i agree cameron

"Cameron" <cbrown1974@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:440a422f$0$1145$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
> Why is observing a trainer who claims to have wonderfull non reactive
> technology resort to name calling irrelevant to this discussion?
>
>
>
> "phill_coxon" <phill@getresults.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:1141501685.264536.207990@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
>
>> You know what Cameron, I give up.
>
> Probably a wise move,
>
> To quote a woman from the east bank "we will not stop, because they will
> not stop because we will not stop"
>
> I have agreed with you repeatedly that this is a futile endeavour.
>
>> I only asked that you stop making suggestions that your perception of
>> Tom and Unkah have anything to do with the effectiveness or worthiness
>> of 3D Mind.
>
> Tom founded it? his behaviour is perhaps relevant?
>
>
>> Instead both John and yourself felt you had to come back and post the
>> same old stuff again. While one of your key points seems to be Tom and
>> Unkah's behaviour and how "reactive' they are, you just can't help
>> being reactive yourself.
>
> Yes, I agree, both sides are locked in irreconcilable conflict, John and I
> have exchanged a few e-mails Tom and Unk (whatever his real name is) are
> closely associated in real life.
>
> Speaking for myself, I'me not selling a "non reactive" technology or
> selling anything at all so reacting doesn't leave me in hypocrisy or
> making a bad public example of a technology I founded or sell.
>
> Not sure why Tom continues this way. This is the relevance between his
> behaviuor and his alleged technology that I keep drawing yoru attention
> to. Glad to see you got my point.
>
> <phils summary>
>
>
>> You want evidence. You're not going to get what you want unless you
>> get of your butt and really read what's in the 3D Brain list. Or wait
>> for the evidence that is going to be released soon.
>
> Waiting, have been waiting since I first asked the question, have offered
> to shut up in the face of evidence. Have shut up and revised my position
> as new facts have became available before.
>
> The 3-d Brain list, as I've pointed out to you 6? times already is mostly
> an abuse fest. It's not laziness, incompetence or inability to read that
> has stoped me finding the details, it is the fact that Ken describes the
> list as a sorry excuse, People not toeing the line there get abused than
> thrown out.
>
> My experience of the list, including posts from someone who has much more
> academic credibility than the medical doctor Ken who was belittled
> ridiculed tand then throwen out.
>
> The issue I raise, and keep raising is.
>
> WHY
>
> IF 3-D MIND IS SO GOOD AT CREATING NON REACTIVE PATTERNS
>
> DO ALL (except mostly yourself) THE 3-D MIND MATERIALS I SEE CONTAIN
> MASSIVELY REACTIVE RESPONSES TO ANY QUESTIONING?
>
> You have read the list, you have seen the abuse, what is your position on
> this situation?
>
> Do you accept it ?
>
> Do you ignore it?
>
> Do you justify it?
>
>
>> It's clear Tom and Unkah don't care whether you believe what they say
>> or not.
>
> They have ignored and belittled people who are better educated than me.
>
> Tom usually compares himself to Einstein or Freud when faced with academic
> criticism.
>
> Unk retreats into "what do I care college boy" or something similar.
>
> Along with lashings of "weak willed moron" from both parties.
>
> Not a great role model to follow? Not material I wish to expose myself to?
>
>
>> About the best you can do is agree to disagree and wait.
>
> Depends on my aims. Read the third post in this thread for more
> explanation of them.
>
> Besides you and I agreed to this a while ago, why are you still poking at
> me? Why are the vast majority of yoru posts restating your position rather
> than either discussing or ignoring irrelevant material?
>
>
>> Every person reading this list will have to make a decision for
>> themselves about 3D Mind.
>
> And decisions are best made with information no?
>
> I am actually looking forward to those recorded sessions that you
> mentioned you were hoping to provide. That is evidence that I could
> accept, a real event to sink my teeth into and real results to respect.
>
> In the mean time I will continue to request information on why Tom
> considers his model to be backed by science.
>
> I will continue to watch his reactive and abusive response to people who
> dare question his revealed truth.
>
> And I will continue to point out that it is not just me that he abuses, he
> does abuse people he has not met yet as well.
>
>> If you feel it's important to jump up and down out of some need to
>> protect others from the possibility of being ripped off, then I guess
>> you'll have to continue.
>
> Read the 3rd post in this thread, I spelt out my motivations there.
>
>> Or if your motivation to continue is simply
>> because lack of scientific "evidence" is your pet peeve,
>
> Only from those that claim to have it, and offer to sell to people based
> on that.
>
> It's only a small section of the population who have bothered to educated
> themselves in science, no problem there it hasn't made me any happier.
> When someone claims backing of science then yes I will ask for the proof,
> it's a con mans tatic if it is not verifiable.
>
>>or you just
>> don't like Tom & Unkah fine.
>
> I don't appreciate Unks repeated comments about my grandmother.
>
> I worry about a trainer who stoops to name calling.
>
> I honestly read some of the posts to a eleven year old who is living here
> at the moment, he suggested posts in a similar style, It struck me as he
> reacted to unks comments that his communication style was very similar to
> Unk's, now unk is over 50 <shrugs>
>
> (quote from Daniel)
>
> "Hello unk this is Daniel, Cameron's friend, Now, if you are so stupid you
> cant see Cameron is waving the red flag in front of your face, you are
> acting like a 5 year old, are you really 55? you are very very stupid unk"
>
> (he added that he is not stupid so don't play any tricks with him)
>
> Looking at that, he's probably actually displaying more maturity than a 50
> year old with all the benefits of the 3-d mind, it's not his vocabulary
> that is lacking he just has basic politeness.
>
> (admittedly the song he advised me to sing had a few more choice words in
> it and was almost as repetitive as unks postings.)
>
> You dont comment on much, care to comment on that?
>
>
>> Hopefully at some point the discussion in this group will get to useful
>> discussion rather than just ego's at play.
>
> The group seems (again see the third post in this thread) to manage to
> discuss usefully without name calling or abuse.
>
> When I gave up cigs I did get a little on the aggressive side, having made
> it past that, and repeatedly referring to that time as two morons head
> butting one another in public, I wonder why even then I still stayed
> within the bounds of decency and quickly rectified my behaviour.
>
> It seems typical of unk and Tom's communication.
>
> It might be as you say an ego battle, they seem to get involved in a lot
> of them. I think of it more as waving a red flag in front of a bull to see
> how calm it is.
>
> Again the motor mower manufacturer metaphor.
>
> Mechanics have been known to have dodgy cars (because they can repair them
> if they fail) why is Tom selling a non reactive technology when being
> publicly embarrassingly reactive?
>
>

Tom Vizzini

"Cameron" <cbrown1974@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:440a422f$0$1145$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
> Why is observing a trainer who claims to have wonderfull non reactive
> technology resort to name calling irrelevant to this discussion?

Because you fucking moron.....I just thought that would be fun.

Camoron just becuase someone responds to your namecalling and insults with
their own namecalling and insults is no reason to feel like a victim.

If you can't handle being calling an idtion then don't insult people. Time
and timagain you have personally insulted people on this list who disagree
with you.

For me.....I have the FREEDOM to call you a dumb ass without feeling like I
am not allowed to notice it. If by some chance you ever write a civil
post...you might get a civil reponse.

Until then asshole, you are just another whiney shit thrower.....yes that
does kinda feel good

Have fun

Tom

UnKa

Ahhh then your rants about


>I don't appreciate Unks repeated comments about my grandmother.

>I worry about a trainer who stoops to name calling.


Do bother you, so then by your own admission you are a liar because you
said they don't bother you.

Why should you worry about what we do? Can you at all prove the 3-D
Mind doesn't work or invalid? Of course you can't because your too
fucken lazy to even read anything posted to you and when and if you do
read it, then you dismiss it because it doesn't fall into your crappy
NLP belief system.

You've added nothing to any discussion exept what you deem childish
behavior on our part, ignoring facts presented to you, ignoring posts
that demonstrate the results of the 3-D Mind, so then one must ask who
is the childish behavior really assigned to?

If you were half a man, you would have said, please don't make remarks
about my grandmother, and I would have respected that and stopped. But
just because your an overly sensensitive man bitch, don't try to force
your crappy beliefs on to me about what should and shouldn't be.
Let me tell you something that happened this weekend, I was sitting in
the bar at the hotel where the seminar was taking place and next to me
was a 59 year old Russian guy who served two tours in Afghanistan, he
was clearly dealing heavily with PTSD.
So as we talked, I could clearly see him going into state and a
reliving some bullshit.
So I asked him, do you want to get over it. Then he began this long
story about...blah blah blah...and I said Stop, do you want to get over
it, long story short, he said he it's not possible, then wanted to
continue with his story, I said stop, I am not going to sit here and
listen to a drunk tell me about shit that happened years ago because I
don't care. Now to sit and listen to him go on and on about shit that
happened years ago, and drag me into his crappy reality isn't going to
happen, been there done that.

So was it cruel the way I handled him, you may say yes and you would
have sat there because of your social conditioning and listened to him
all the while screaming inside that you want to leave.

Listening to someone like him rant about all that shit doesn't help him
or anyone listening because it is over but he chose to live in that.

Bottom line is, I don't want to hear about your problems, I want to
know if you want to get past them so you can move on, content is yours,
and I don't care.
I am results oriented, everything else is bullshit. And if you learned
nothing else from NLP, you should know that. Content is theirs and
isn't important to you, except to get only what you need to effect a
change. To sit and listen to them complain, bitch and moan isn't going
to help them or you.

So your constant bitching and moaning about our behavior isn't
important, what is important is that you need to get a sense of humor.

If you would have called my grandmother a hooker, I would have said,
and she is a good one too and charges more if she has to take her teeth
out of her mouth to give you a blowjob.

You can't hurt my feelings or direct me in any way because from where I
sit, all I see are a bunch of pansy ass overly emotional pussies.

If you want to continue to harp about our behavior, go fuck yourself
because I really don't care, neither does Tom or Phil.

You have been given more then enough information with links and books
and even access to the neuroscientist who told them the scientific
facts how the 3-D Mind works.
Did you ask questions?
I even invite John and Cameron down to Atlanta to view the video of Dr.
Ken demonstrating the visual imagines of the 3-D Mind and how it works.

But Cameron always has excuses, the cheap bastard wanted to me pay for
his plane ticket, knowing I wouldn't, so he was let off the hook, but
in fact it just goes to show what a real coward cameron really is, duh
no rocket science there.

So as far as you are concerned Cameron, your a buffoon not worth
talking too because you've to date not supplied any facts of any kind
yet like the bandler camp, just ignore facts and go on your merry way
expounding the myths about NLP.

So have at it buster, blast, write to your hearts content, condemn but
we are secure in the knowledge and can boast we get results, and your
clue less.

John on the other hand seem to have some intelligence, so I may yet
read what he posts.

Cameron

"UnKa" <monsterbrat49@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141668789.761372.35140@e56g2000cwe.googlegro ups.com...
> Cammy and John:

Lovely of you to use first names while hiding behind UNK and monsterbrat.



> Boy oh Boy did you get it wrong again. John stated that I am here to
> drive NLP trainers away, which is fully untrue.

Nope, I said you said you had driven away nlp trainers, Phil said I got it
so wrong, John and I independantly pointed out that it was your own claim.

> So go fondle your genitals while you ponder that and maybe the extra
> blood circulation will help.

With well reasoned debate like that, how can you go wrong?

3-d mind to rule the world...........

Tom Vizzini

"Cameron" <cbrown1974@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:440d1650$0$1507$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...

>
> I dont feel like a victim, apart from the fact that you have driven away
> some NLP trainers who could have had something to usefull to say,

Ahh the cloud clears and the real agenda pops out.

Look....No NLP trainers have been driven away. They RAN away for a variety
of reasons. The biggest reason was that their claims could not stand up to
their results.

They first tried to bash the 3D Mind as well. Well not completely true. They
first tried to claim the 3D Mind WAS NLP and nothing new. Having lost those
claims they then attacked me personally. Then they attacked Kim personally.
Then they went back to claiming 3D Mind was NLP. Then they started posting
under assumed names and making stupid attacks.

Let me add that there are some really good people in the NLP world.

I'me not
> holding up your aggresive and abusive behaviour in some hope that the net
> cops will drag you away, just pointing out that you do look, at least to
me
> like a reactive abusive sales bot.

Point one...I have not been aggressive. I very passively think you are an
idiot.


>
> Try using a SMD push to shift your concept of me from something big and
> threatening and worth your time to something small insignificant and
> realising you could be doing something better if you wanted to.

I am doing what is best. Having fun trapping you into a corner where all you
have is claims of abuse. It is a great study in stupidity.

>
> Then you would have the freedom to to have to call me all the lovely
things
> you come up with.
>
> In the mean time, keep swearing abusing and feeling justified.

I feel fine.....If this is the best you have then I think I am done.

Cameron

>> I dont feel like a victim, apart from the fact that you have driven away
>> some NLP trainers who could have had something to usefull to say,
>
> Ahh the cloud clears and the real agenda pops out.

<holds hands up zombie like and murmers "brains fresh brains!">

This aspect of my agenda was made very clear early in the flamewar, I
pointed out repeatedly that I think it is abhorant to enter a group and spam
with off toppic abuse. I likened it to going into a christian church and
preaching the word of Allah.

On the 3-d brain list people who introduce material that you fel is
irrelevant get banned, on the 3-d mind list they have to pay to enter, here
in the real world no one can make you shut up, but you react so agressively
and churlishly you will slavishly follow deep threads and keep out of others
faces.




> Look....No NLP trainers have been driven away. They RAN away for a variety
> of reasons. The biggest reason was that their claims could not stand up to
> their results.
>
> They first tried to bash the 3D Mind as well. Well not completely true.
> They
> first tried to claim the 3D Mind WAS NLP and nothing new. Having lost
> >those claims they then attacked me personally. Then they attacked Kim
> >personally.

Never met Kim so I cant say much on that. I would agree that a lot of what I
have been able to glean from your web site that, though 3-d mind may not be
NLP it uses a lot of the same techniques, or at least techniques by the same
name.

In my praticioner intergration questions I suggested (amongst other things)
that NLP was theft. If you haev taken NLP techniques and are selling them
off cheaper with support than I applaud that.

If you could re state the "science" behind 3-d mind I could even agree with
you there.

but from my experience of your communication, if you are complaining about
personal attacks, I just think how many of your posts have started with Cam
moron and invite you to take the log out of yoru eye before you go looking
for specks in anyone elses.

The unique claim that I have seen made for 3-d mind is that it quickly and
easily relieves reactive states.

Given your and unk's behaviour, and the 3-d brain list I dont see much
evidence to support that claim. Phil handled conflict well but no sooner
than he calmed down the fire more gas was poured on the conflict.

I really do not understand how you see your name calling and abuse reflects
well on your technology. I have the luxury, as you pointed out and I
acknowledged repeatedly of not standing for anything, but calling things how
I see them.

You are involved in selling 3-d mind, in a farily agressive way on this
list. As it's founder prehpas you would be better served in actually staying
on the high moreal ground rather than claiming it?

> Point one...I have not been aggressive. I very passively think you are an
> idiot.

Prehaps you should look at some of yoruposts before you send them?


>
>
>>
>> Try using a SMD push to shift your concept of me from something big and
>> threatening and worth your time to something small insignificant and
>> realising you could be doing something better if you wanted to.
>
> I am doing what is best. Having fun trapping you into a corner where all
> you have is claims of abuse. It is a great study in stupidity.

I feel much the same way about you, looks like we will be flaming one
another for ever, I wont loose any sales or sleep over it.

And the abusive behaviour you engage in is not a personal affront, just the
reason why I dobut your claims to be sucessfull or non reactive.

Except of course when you are abusive it is just because you enjoy it and
unk is abusive because he sees it as brutal honesty.

>> In the mean time, keep swearing abusing and feeling justified.
>
> I feel fine.....If this is the best you have then I think I am done.

dude, I'ld really have wasted thetime I spent inNLP if I didn't realise you
feel more than just fine, you think you are fighting the good fight. And
again, saying you are done is your third favourite gambit,

See you tomorow.