Cameron

"ivan" <ivan@x.x> wrote in message newsp.s6fa73rg4ne2cm@z-bsr9cdb6fi3bu...

>I have few more questions about anxiety.
>
> How to deal with anxiety?

Breathing deeply, eating well, examining any fears that may be promoting the
anxiety.

It may not be a promise of a 3 minute quick fix, but apart from the third
point (identifying fears) it's guaranteed and testable.

It might just be the way I was trained, but go looking for some positive
states before you start feeling week powerless and vulnerable. Given your
style of posting I'ld guess that you are not having continuos panic attacks.
Remember the times in between as well, Focusing on negatives can really
effect your view of the world, possibly invoking more anxiety.

Progressive relaxation, would be my second suggestion.

> How to specify anxiety?

Good question, unacknowledged anxiety can be far worse than anxiety you are
aware of.

Shallow breathing (which also leads to more anxiety through increased CO2
levels in the blood stream) would have to be my number one suggestion for
noticing the state of anxiety when it is present.

> Is anxiety belief or state?

While there may (and probably will) be beliefs that support your ability to
become anxious, I would say that the anxiety itself is a state.


> What belief produce anxiety?

That's a nice broad question, As I am aware, one of the greatest problems
with anxiety is non specific anxiety.

There may be specific conditions in your life that make some degree of
anxiety useful as an indication of internal or external conflict.

It may have become a habituated response (so used to begin anxious that it's
become normal)

Or there may be beliefs that allow you to maintain your anxiety despite your
efforts so far to let it go.

While you are looking at beliefs, I'ld encourage you to consider that the
opposite of hyped up and tense would be calm and flexible.



(does any of that make sense to you?)

Cameron

"ivan" <ivan@x.x> wrote in message
newsp.s6fdc8tg4ne2cm@z-bsr9cdb6fi3bu...>>
>>(does any of that make sense to you?)

> Yes, but here is more about that.

Good, good, just making sure we had some content raport at least before
proceeding.

> I ask this because I have anxiety (and sometimes anxiety attack) about
> everything About myself, about my life, about my brother (I now he >doing
> OK, better then I), when I go out I get anxiety about what will >happen
> (to me, and in general), when I talk t someone I get anxiety attack >about
> what she or he will think about me, etc. All that I write before, >plus
> anxiety and anxiety attack.

Psycho/physilogical arousal has a negative impact on cognitive tasks.
(it is harder to think clearly when you are worked up)

Two of the simplist, easiest and freely available methods for reducing
excessive stress are Progressive relaxation and deep breathing.

http://www.guidetopsychology.com/pmr.htm

Has what I consider to be a good guide to progressive relaxation including
general theory and things to watch out for.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/har/les1.htm
is another good document on the process.


http://www.pe2000.com/breathe_diaphragm.htm

Looks like an excelent reasource for Diaphragm breathing

http://www.pe2000.com/
Actually seems to have many free reasources and links for anxiety in
general.


http://www.paniccenter.net/
Is a general reasource and support site for anxiety.


From what I've seen, those reasources should be enough to have you a lot
calmer in a matter of weeks. With only a hour or less a day. The information
is there, free, and scientifically reputable. Not as wizz bang as solving
the whole problem in 30 seconds but invaluable tools in getting some
controll back over your own life without having to believe in a magic pill.

I'ld suggest that as you start to utilise the techniques on those pages you
will not only notice that you become clamer, but that clamness can help you
be in a strong position for deciding if anything else is needed.

The internal locus of controll generated (feeling like you are driving the
bus again rather than just hanging on) can also have a wonderfull effect,
Panic states do not generally correspond well with calm powerfull states.

<still making sense?>

h

"Cameron" <cbrown1974@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4417507c$0$14239$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "ivan" <ivan@x.x> wrote in message
> newsp.s6fdc8tg4ne2cm@z-bsr9cdb6fi3bu...>>
>>>(does any of that make sense to you?)
>
>> Yes, but here is more about that.
>
> Good, good, just making sure we had some content raport at least before
> proceeding.
>
>> I ask this because I have anxiety (and sometimes anxiety attack) about
>> everything About myself, about my life, about my brother (I now he >doing
>> OK, better then I), when I go out I get anxiety about what will >happen
>> (to me, and in general), when I talk t someone I get anxiety attack
>> >about what she or he will think about me, etc. All that I write
>> before, >plus anxiety and anxiety attack.
>
> Psycho/physilogical arousal has a negative impact on cognitive tasks.
> (it is harder to think clearly when you are worked up)
>
> Two of the simplist, easiest and freely available methods for reducing
> excessive stress are Progressive relaxation and deep breathing.
>
> http://www.guidetopsychology.com/pmr.htm
>
> Has what I consider to be a good guide to progressive relaxation including
> general theory and things to watch out for.
>
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/har/les1.htm
> is another good document on the process.
>
>
> http://www.pe2000.com/breathe_diaphragm.htm
>
> Looks like an excelent reasource for Diaphragm breathing
>
> http://www.pe2000.com/
> Actually seems to have many free reasources and links for anxiety in
> general.
>
>
> http://www.paniccenter.net/
> Is a general reasource and support site for anxiety.
>
>
> From what I've seen, those reasources should be enough to have you a lot
> calmer in a matter of weeks. With only a hour or less a day. The
> information is there, free, and scientifically reputable. Not as wizz bang
> as solving the whole problem in 30 seconds but invaluable tools in getting
> some controll back over your own life without having to believe in a magic
> pill.
>
> I'ld suggest that as you start to utilise the techniques on those pages
> you will not only notice that you become clamer, but that clamness can
> help you be in a strong position for deciding if anything else is needed.
>
> The internal locus of controll generated (feeling like you are driving the
> bus again rather than just hanging on) can also have a wonderfull effect,
> Panic states do not generally correspond well with calm powerfull states.
>
> <still making sense?>

Yes, I'll read this pages and start exercise.
Thanks.

UnKa

>It might just be the way I was trained, but go looking for some positive
>states before you start feeling week powerless and vulnerable.

it is how you were trained buddy, anxiety is not the problem, it is a
symptom of the problem.
This is why Bart and Phil asked the questions they asked to get to the
root of the problem.

It is sort of like the cause effect

In a lamp, the effect is light, the cause is electricity, with out the
electricity, there is no light. So then the light would not be the
problem.

in simpler terms, his anxiety is the result of a trigger + belief =
anxiety.

Remove the trigger, the belief can yet manifest itself in other ways,
remove the belief, the trigger can still be pulled but without the
belief it will go nowhere. This is really much more simple than NLP
makes it out to be.

Cameron

I'me not sure if you are familiar with the "core transformation" process
that <goes searching for the book> Connirae Andreas published, It is quite
similar
to the process that phil is suggesting, except as I suggested <and as I
recall> it has the aditional step of looking for empowered states rather
than honing in on negative states first.

From my own experience, it is easier, especially for people who are new to
this field to find tha they can elicit positive beliefs, gain experience
with the process and then go for the negative ones.

Easier exploration and reasourcesfull states, V a little faster
intervention.

Sounds like a deal to me.

Dilts also has a lot of good material available on belief change work if you
would care to look through that.


As I said I offered up the progressive relaxation and deep breathign links
because they are free, proven scientifically to work, do not require any
aditional beliefs, lead to an internal locus of controll and leaves the
person in a better place to make judgements about the steps (if any) they
wish to make later.

To take your metaphor about the light.

If someone is complaining that the light is too bright, it might be easiest
to flip off the light switch, the problem might be that they have sensitive
eyes, or just steped out of a dark room, It might be that they are outside
and it's the sun that they are experienceing as being too bright.

Handing them a blindfold is not the optimal long term solution, sunglasses
will only help, but if either enables them to become more calm and in
controll of their own process.

In Ivans context, we have a couple of pages of text from someone who is not
familiar with self analysis. I dont know exactly how or why or even what
state he is in. Of the many tools I have encountered, breathing deeply and
relaxing are available for free, have other health benifits and are
undobutedly positive for only a little effort.

When I was younger and even more foolish I believed in simple answers for
every question, now I'ld rather take some time and check if I'me dealing
with the real issue or with my model of the world.

And as you would know from your exposure to the 3-dbrain model, both carbon
dioxide and tension have a massive effect on the nervous system and it's an
easy point to create change.



"UnKa" <monsterbrat49@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142455773.994948.37250@j52g2000cwj.googlegro ups.com...
> >It might just be the way I was trained, but go looking for some positive
>>states before you start feeling week powerless and vulnerable.
>
> it is how you were trained buddy, anxiety is not the problem, it is a
> symptom of the problem.
> This is why Bart and Phil asked the questions they asked to get to the
> root of the problem.
>
> It is sort of like the cause effect
>
> In a lamp, the effect is light, the cause is electricity, with out the
> electricity, there is no light. So then the light would not be the
> problem.
>
> in simpler terms, his anxiety is the result of a trigger + belief =
> anxiety.
>
> Remove the trigger, the belief can yet manifest itself in other ways,
> remove the belief, the trigger can still be pulled but without the
> belief it will go nowhere. This is really much more simple than NLP
> makes it out to be.
>

phill_coxon

> I'me not sure if you are familiar with the "core transformation" process
> that <goes searching for the book> Connirae Andreas published, It is quite
> similar

Wow. An interesting post from Cameron responding to Unkah that didn't
turn into a flame fest.

I'm impressed.

Maybe there's hope for this newsgroup after all.

I agree with you Cameron - Robert Dilt's material is very, very good.

I wouldn't say he's particularly entertaining in the way he teaches,
but he sure knows his stuff.

Cameron

"h" <h@email.com> wrote in message news:dv9k65$5nb$2@ss405.t-com.hr...

>> <still making sense?>
>
> Yes, I'll read this pages and start exercise.
> Thanks.

Ok, couple of days down the track now, you dont seem to mind (from other
posts in this thread) going into personal content. Usually I wouldn't ask a
question on the internet like this (I'ts your content not mine).

Have you managed to take the time to do any of the exercises?
(remembering that old NLP chesnut there is not failure only feedback)

If you have, what sorts of results/experiences have you had with them so
far. (free text pages/tapes/dvd's) are all very good, but I've always found
that iterative processes give much higher quality feedback and rapport.

Assumeing for the moment that you have the basics down and will continue
with those exercises for a few more weeks to get the long term effects they
offer, recognising that a deep breathing pattern can be developed in yoru
calmer moments but takes a while before it is really effective when you are
actually havign a problem, lets move on shall we?

From what you have said in other posts in the thread, I've got a question
that might be intresting to think about, answer it here if you want to or
keep your content to yourself.

What would it be like if it was OK for a group of people to be laughing at
you? How would you internally represent them to yourself so that they gain
the power of panic over you?

I am going to ramble about this point for a while in the hope of making it
clearer.

Who are they to judge you?
(beware the dizzying heights of arrogance and objectification that one can
lead to)

What effects can/have they had on you in the real world?
(if they are not currently effecting you or others negatively, havent
slandered your good name or messed with your house, family or immune system
would it be ok to just let it go?)

I suppose here I am exposing some of my deeper issues with NLP. That it
works (at least in the hands of a skilled praticioner) is beyond dobut in my
mind, I have seen to many lasting changes to even question that. but as the
phrase goes, "to the man with only a hammer the whole world looks like a
nail" Change is easy, long term sustainable ecological change takes
elegance. To nick a concept from the western tradition "it is the work that
stands without maitance that is the real work"

You could try the "only way up is down" getting in touch with the personal
limiting beliefs "I am a looser".... Mahni Dougan is one example of a
praticioner that has that down to an art from, personally I find it
abhorant.
It works.

You could try hypeing your self up "what I am doing is so worthwhile others
dont matter" ..... Combined with a secure self concept this can be great, at
the other end of the scale we get Jihad and Crusadeing behaviour.

Or reducing the others " That pack of assholes isn't bright enough to form a
valid opinion" "They'ld have to know me before they could reject who I
really am"...... This would probally be my perfered technique, but you're
not me and you have to have a fair bit of security in whom you are to be
able to elegantly ignore others infulence and chart your own response.

Summary time!

Doing the breathing/relaxation yet?
(no failure only feedback!)

What sort of effects are you noticing?
(Any refinements I can offer? (am I being trolled?))

Take some time to consider how you might like the internal power difference
between them and yourself to be resolved.

<still with me?>

ivan

"Cameron" <cbrown1974@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4419f301$0$7601$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
>
> "h" <h@email.com> wrote in message news:dv9k65$5nb$2@ss405.t-com.hr...
>
>>> <still making sense?>
>>
>> Yes, I'll read this pages and start exercise.
>> Thanks.
>
> Ok, couple of days down the track now, you dont seem to mind (from other
> posts in this thread) going into personal content. Usually I wouldn't ask
> a question on the internet like this (I'ts your content not mine).
>
> Have you managed to take the time to do any of the exercises?

No, I just look at some URL, and I understand that I need to find time to do
it good.
And I'll do it when I get some time, next week.

Cameron

"ivan" <ivan@x.x> wrote in message news:dvfbbl$j2f$1@ss405.t->>> Yes, I'll
read this pages and start exercise.
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Ok, couple of days down the track now, you dont seem to mind (from
>> >>other posts in this thread) going into personal content. Usually I
>> wouldn't >>ask a question on the internet like this (I'ts your content
>> not mine).
>>
>> Have you managed to take the time to do any of the exercises?
>
> No, I just look at some URL, and I understand that I need to find time to
> >do it good.
> And I'll do it when I get some time, next week.

Good

It can take as little as a few minutes a few times a day to get impressive
results in a week. Formally I believe it is usually sugested an hour or two
a day for a month in order to totally and perminatly change your tension
carring/breathing patterns.

To get to a point where you can easily answer questions like Phils it can be
usefull much faster.Overwhelm and panic are hard stated to do internal
awareness in, thus I believe NLP's suggestions of raising reasourcefull
states before going after others.

Give me an OI ofter you have had some pratice with the breathing/relaxation.