terrancejack@yahoo.com

If we could take a break from the Vizzini bashing, I would like to
know everyone's opinion on why NLP seems more in demand in the UK than
in the USA?
Is it the marketing? Is it that the UK is just more focused on
personal development? Is it the popularity of Derren Brown? If there
are any NLP Trainers left in this forum I would be interested to get
their comments on this topic.
Thank you in advance.

Terry

Nick Kemp

On May 6, 3:11 pm, terrancej...@yahoo.com wrote:
> If we could take a break from the Vizzini bashing, I would like to
> know everyone's opinion on why NLP seems more in demand in the UK than
> in the USA?
> Is it the marketing? Is it that the UK is just more focused on
> personal development? Is it the popularity of Derren Brown? If there
> are any NLP Trainers left in this forum I would be interested to get
> their comments on this topic.
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Terry

I'm curious to know why you think this may be the case?

I know that some NLP USA based trainings still attract hundreds of
people each time they are run...

Nick Kemp
www.nickkemp.com

terrancejack@yahoo.com

On May 6, 3:22 pm, Nick Kemp <nickkemp2...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'm curious to know why you think this may be the case?
>

The overall number of NLP training companies in the UK.

tikanete@gmail.com

On May 7, 1:15 pm, terrancej...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On May 6, 3:22 pm, Nick Kemp <nickkemp2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm curious to know why you think this may be the case?
>
> The overall number of NLP training companies in the UK.

In the city of New York, there are only two active NLP training
centers (Steve Leeds/Rachel Hott's and Doug O'Brien's). And both of
them definitely do not attract hundreds.

I'm aware of only 3 NLP practice groups and they seem to have 5-10
people at most, on a good day.

gnr

Hi Terry,

Derren Brown surely might have a hand in this, but I think the actual
reason for this is that NLP has lost its popularity in the U.S. It
became a craze for a while and all kinds of people wrote all kinds of
books, lots of people attended the trainings.

Over time though, most people didnt get the results they wanted , and
mainstream science people also kept saying that NLP was useless. So it
started to fade off.

I believe its passing through countries , gaining popularity , losing
it than moving on to other countries . The same happened here in
Turkey. There was an NLP craze 5-6 years ago, but now if you were to
ask most people they would classify NLP as crap and its trainers as
scammers. And it is so. Because so called trainers are throwing away
certificates to people who has no real experience for the sake of
earning the dollar. That results in crappy trainings , crappy
therapy ...etc.

Harun

Nick Kemp

On May 7, 6:53 pm, gnr <gunerha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Terry,
>
> Derren Brown surely might have a hand in this, but I think the actual
> reason for this is that NLP has lost its popularity in the U.S. It
> became a craze for a while and all kinds of people wrote all kinds of
> books, lots of people attended the trainings.
>
> Over time though, most people didnt get the results they wanted , and
> mainstream science people also kept saying that NLP was useless. So it
> started to fade off.
>
> I believe its passing through countries , gaining popularity , losing
> it than moving on to other countries . The same happened here in
> Turkey. There was an NLP craze 5-6 years ago, but now if you were to
> ask most people they would classify NLP as crap and its trainers as
> scammers. And it is so. Because so called trainers are throwing away
> certificates to people who has no real experience for the sake of
> earning the dollar. That results in crappy trainings , crappy
> therapy ...etc.
>
> Harun

"now if you were to
ask most people they would classify NLP as crap"

Exactly how many people have you asked before making this
generalisation?

"so called trainers are throwing away certificates to people "

Who specifically are you talking about here and what personal evidence
do you have in making this generalisation?

I'm not interested in spending hours here in the punch and judy show,
but am curious to know how you determine "most people didnt get the
results they wanted" and curiously look forward to your reply and
knowing what sample of people were involved in this research for you
to make such a claim!

lol

Nick Kemp
www.nickkemp.com

gnr

"I'm not interested in spending hours here in the punch and judy show,
but am curious to know how you determine "most people didnt get the
results they wanted" and curiously look forward to your reply and
knowing what sample of people were involved in this research for you
to make such a claim! "

okay,

I have worked for an NLP company for 3 years.

We had around 50 students per seminar and there were about 12
trainings a year(prac and master prac total) in a city.

We did 3 cities so : 50*12*3=1800 people lets say times 2 ,for 2 of
the years as some trainings I wasnt able to attend because I was
teaching English. Makes 3600 people. Considering that not as many
people as in the US are interested in NLP in Turkey, we can say that
3600 is a good number. We were working with the society of NLP. Of
course people who attended the seminars were dazzled at first. We were
giving them the manual to their brains. I followed up with allmost
everyone of them because we had dinners together with all groups at 3
month intervals. By the time 6months passed over their trainings, I
would question them if they are using NLP, and %90 of them would say
no. I would continue digging and they would say , well it seems to
work then the old me returns. Another suprising one was their
suggestion to me that I as a youngster should live life to learn about
it instead of learning it from stuff like NLP. These were the same
people that were amazed by NLP at first, telling me this.

But that is not all... Around 3000-3500 people have gotten
certificates from an other so called NLP association. There was this
guy who formed a company who was actually a previous student of us. He
partnered with one of the so called masters of NLP(foreign and known)
and there was a certificate disaster. They started giving everyone
master trainer certificates. They were telling poeple that they will
be trainers and making money after they are certified. Well as
expected, none of them ever became trainers, because they had 0
experience, and 1 piece of paper. Then the customers started suing
these guys.

The fact is, as long as even the society of NLP throws away NLP
certificates to people who does nothing but pay for a seminar, the
faith of NLP is very foreseeable.

Add to that, the creator was not able to fix himself, which is another
matter alltogether.

gnr

"I'm not interested in spending hours here in the punch and judy show,
but am curious to know how you determine "most people didnt get the
results they wanted" and curiously look forward to your reply and
knowing what sample of people were involved in this research for you
to make such a claim! "

okay,

I have worked for an NLP company for 3 years.

We had around 50 students per seminar and there were about 12
trainings a year(prac and master prac) in a city.

We did 3 cities so : 50*12*3=1800 people lets say times 2 ,for 2 of
the years because ,some trainings I wasnt able to attend because I
was teaching English. Makes 3600 people. Considering that not as many
people as in the US are interested in NLP in Turkey, we can say that
3600 is a good number. We were working with the society of NLP. Of
course people who attended the seminars were dazzled at first. We were
giving them the manual to their brains. I followed up with allmost
everyone of them because we had dinners together with all groups at 3
month intervals. By the time 6months passed over their trainings, I
would question them if they are using NLP, and %90 of them would say
no. I would continue digging and they would say , well it seems to
work then the old me returns. Another suprising one was their
suggestion to me that I as a youngster should live life to learn about
it instead of learning it from stuff like NLP. These were the same
people that were amazed by NLP at first, telling me this.

But that is not all... Around 3000-3500 people have gotten
certificates from an other so called NLP association. There was this
guy who formed a company who was actually a previous student of us. He
partnered with one of the so called masters of NLP(foreign and known)
and there was a certificate disaster. They started giving everyone
master trainer certificates. They were telling poeple that they will
be trainers and making money after they are certified. Well as
expected, none of them ever became trainers, because they had 0
experience, and 1 piece of paper. Then the customers started suing
these guys.

The fact is, as long as even the society of NLP throws away NLP
certificates to people who does nothing but pay for a seminar, the
faith of NLP is very foreseeable.

Add to that, the creator was not able to fix himself, which is another
matter alltogether.

So now you know on what I base things I say .

Happy?

(oh shit i dont know how write here the NLP smirk )

Nick Kemp

On May 10, 12:48 am, gnr <gunerha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "I'm not interested in spending hours here in the punch and judy show,
> but am curious to know how you determine "most people didnt get the
> results they wanted" and curiously look forward to your reply and
> knowing what sample of people were involved in this research for you
> to make such a claim! "
>
> okay,
>
> I have worked for an NLP company for 3 years.
>
> We had around 50 students per seminar and there were about 12
> trainings a year(prac and master prac) in a city.
>
> We did 3 cities so : 50*12*3=1800 people lets say times 2 ,for 2 of
> the years because ,some trainings I wasnt able to attend because I
> was teaching English. Makes 3600 people. Considering that not as many
> people as in the US are interested in NLP in Turkey, we can say that
> 3600 is a good number. We were working with the society of NLP. Of
> course people who attended the seminars were dazzled at first. We were
> giving them the manual to their brains. I followed up with allmost
> everyone of them because we had dinners together with all groups at 3
> month intervals. By the time 6months passed over their trainings, I
> would question them if they are using NLP, and %90 of them would say
> no. I would continue digging and they would say , well it seems to
> work then the old me returns. Another suprising one was their
> suggestion to me that I as a youngster should live life to learn about
> it instead of learning it from stuff like NLP. These were the same
> people that were amazed by NLP at first, telling me this.
>
> But that is not all... Around 3000-3500 people have gotten
> certificates from an other so called NLP association. There was this
> guy who formed a company who was actually a previous student of us. He
> partnered with one of the so called masters of NLP(foreign and known)
> and there was a certificate disaster. They started giving everyone
> master trainer certificates. They were telling poeple that they will
> be trainers and making money after they are certified. Well as
> expected, none of them ever became trainers, because they had 0
> experience, and 1 piece of paper. Then the customers started suing
> these guys.
>
> The fact is, as long as even the society of NLP throws away NLP
> certificates to people who does nothing but pay for a seminar, the
> faith of NLP is very foreseeable.
>
> Add to that, the creator was not able to fix himself, which is another
> matter alltogether.
>
> So now you know on what I base things I say .
>
> Happy?
>
> (oh shit i dont know how write here the NLP smirk )

Thanks for the information. The question of whether I am "happy" or
not is irrelevant, but I accept that this forum is these days mostly
about chest beating which is why most people interested in discussing
NLP do so elsewhere


I asked those questions because all too often people make
generalisations without actual facts. So what we know now is that in
your experience the above appears to be true and it may surprise you
to know that I agree that certificates should determine more than
simply attendance.

However you still have not replied to how you suggest that

"now if you were to ask most people they would classify NLP as crap"

If one of my NLP students made such a statement I would of course
suggest that his/her linguistic awareness of NLP was lacking...

lol


Nick Kemp

gnr

> > Happy?
>
> > (oh shit i dont know how write here the NLP smirk )
>
> Thanks for the information. The question of whether I am "happy" or
> not is irrelevant, but I accept that this forum is these days mostly
> about chest beating which is why most people interested in discussing
> NLP do so elsewhere

I wrote happy to ask if you are happy with the answer ... Because you
were much suprised about my claim!.. Actually I was suprised, because
I thought someone still related to NLP would have known what I am
talking about better than me . I was also suprised that a person who
claims a civil conversation would put a LOL at the end for no apparent
reason.. But ok, maybe thats your stlye of discussion... So I thought
that was the nlp smirk and I put the in the end so that we
understand each other better.

>
> I asked those questions because all too often people make
> generalisations without actual facts. So what we know now is that in
> your experience the above appears to be true and it may surprise you
> to know that I agree that certificates should determine more than
> simply attendance.

Yep... The company I used to work for stopped doing NLP trainings
alltogether and changed the companyy name to something that doesnt
contain the word NLP in it. This is how bad it got.

>
> However you still have not replied to how you suggest that
>
> "now if you were to ask most people they would classify NLP as crap"
>
> If one of my NLP students made such a statement I would of course
> suggest that his/her linguistic awareness of NLP was lacking...

By crap, I just lumped together all of the comments into one... In
the end we were their trainers and they werent able to tell us what
they truly wanted to tell. You know the teacher student situation. But
because I was so young at the time, they were able to talk to me more
openly. I worked there between the ages of 19 and 22 after getting
trainings at 18. The ones who actually got in the real world and
tried to make it work told me that sleight of mouth made them think
in limited 17 ways and things like mirrroring was just irritating.
Submodalities... Many of them used it sucessfully only for the prblem
to return a few days later. I would personally help people and rid
them of their problems in the seminars only to see them return for
therapy after 2-3 months. My teacher was doing therapy with them
afterwards. I wasnt suprised when I saw them coming back agian in 2
years for still the same problem.

The thing is as I left the company , many of my collegues ... the
people I trained for their orientation into the company and gotten
prac and master prac trainings to be eligible to work in the company
were all dissatisfied with NLP,, and they woulld classify it exxactly
as that : crap..

On the other hand I ve had the chance to meet Jeffrey Zeig as he came
to make trainings here regularly. And I didnt meet him for 10 min. I
was his driver and helper for 8 days. We got to know eacch other. And
he told me he doesnt believe in NLP and Bandler...

Now if we talk about Ericksonian and Brief Therapy, my views would be
different. I have actually seen people changed permanently with it.
And I like them..

Nick Kemp

On May 10, 10:25 am, gnr <gunerha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Happy?
>
> > > (oh shit i dont know how write here the NLP smirk )
>
> > Thanks for the information. The question of whether I am "happy" or
> > not is irrelevant, but I accept that this forum is these days mostly
> > about chest beating which is why most people interested in discussing
> > NLP do so elsewhere
>
> I wrote happy to ask if you are happy with the answer ... Because you
> were much suprised about my claim!.. Actually I was suprised, because
> I thought someone still related to NLP would have known what I am
> talking about better than me . I was also suprised that a person who
> claims a civil conversation would put a LOL at the end for no apparent
> reason.. But ok, maybe thats your stlye of discussion... So I thought
> that was the nlp smirk and I put the in the end so that we
> understand each other better.
>
>
>
> > I asked those questions because all too often people make
> > generalisations without actual facts. So what we know now is that in
> > your experience the above appears to be true and it may surprise you
> > to know that I agree that certificates should determine more than
> > simply attendance.
>
> Yep... The company I used to work for stopped doing NLP trainings
> alltogether and changed the companyy name to something that doesnt
> contain the word NLP in it. This is how bad it got.
>
>
>
> > However you still have not replied to how you suggest that
>
> > "now if you were to ask most people they would classify NLP as crap"
>
> > If one of my NLP students made such a statement I would of course
> > suggest that his/her linguistic awareness of NLP was lacking...
>
> By crap, I just lumped together all of the comments into one... In
> the end we were their trainers and they werent able to tell us what
> they truly wanted to tell. You know the teacher student situation. But
> because I was so young at the time, they were able to talk to me more
> openly. I worked there between the ages of 19 and 22 after getting
> trainings at 18. The ones who actually got in the real world and
> tried to make it work told me that sleight of mouth made them think
> in limited 17 ways and things like mirrroring was just irritating.
> Submodalities... Many of them used it sucessfully only for the prblem
> to return a few days later. I would personally help people and rid
> them of their problems in the seminars only to see them return for
> therapy after 2-3 months. My teacher was doing therapy with them
> afterwards. I wasnt suprised when I saw them coming back agian in 2
> years for still the same problem.
>
> The thing is as I left the company , many of my collegues ... the
> people I trained for their orientation into the company and gotten
> prac and master prac trainings to be eligible to work in the company
> were all dissatisfied with NLP,, and they woulld classify it exxactly
> as that : crap..
>
> On the other hand I ve had the chance to meet Jeffrey Zeig as he came
> to make trainings here regularly. And I didnt meet him for 10 min. I
> was his driver and helper for 8 days. We got to know eacch other. And
> he told me he doesnt believe in NLP and Bandler...
>
> Now if we talk about Ericksonian and Brief Therapy, my views would be
> different. I have actually seen people changed permanently with it.
> And I like them..

Fair enough that's your experience. However as someone who sees 30 -
50 private clients each month its certainly not my experience, so
something in the equation is different...

I am always wary of genera lies ations that people make and my main
point was about that. I use NLP and train people in NLP, but perhaps
differently to what you have to date experienced?

Either way, good luck and I appreciate the exchange

Nick Kemp
www.tranceformingnlp.com

gnr

"I use NLP and train people in NLP, but perhaps
differently to what you have to date experienced? "

Might be because the people I learned it from were not very good at
it. I cant rule that possibility out totally.

"Either way, good luck and I appreciate the exchange"

Take care...

Harun

terrancejack@yahoo.com

On May 6, 3:22 pm, Nick Kemp <nickkemp2...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I know that some NLP USA based trainings still attract hundreds of
> people each time they are run...
>


Hi Nick!
I'm curious which trainings in the USA attract hundreds of people
each time they run?
Thanks!

-Terry

tikanete@gmail.com

On May 10, 9:45 am, terrancej...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On May 6, 3:22 pm, Nick Kemp <nickkemp2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I know that some NLP USA based trainings still attract hundreds of
> > people each time they are run...
>
> Hi Nick!
> I'm curious which trainings in the USA attract hundreds of people
> each time they run?
> Thanks!
>
> -Terry


Terry,
I'm not Nick, and maybe he know more, but the only one that come to my
mind is Bandler's seminars in Florida.
Not sure how Dilts is doing or Tad James in Hawaii.