Richard Ford

I have spent some time looking into the NLP movement and contrasting
it with Dianetics.



Comparing these two is the ultimate in comparing apples and oranges-
but the very difficulty in doing so is educational in itself.



NLP is not a centralised military style organization in the model of
the Church of Scientology. Anybody may contribute to this body of
knowledge and so it is sometimes difficult to know where it begins and
where it ends.



For the purposes of this comparison I eliminated every part of the
movement that is not in direct conflict with Dianetics.



This means I will not count the activities of the Pick Up Artists who
use NLP to seduce women (a claim that LRH really should have made for
Dianetics).



I am also eliminating motivational speakers such as Anthony Robbins
because they use the principles of NLP to break bad habits but do not
engage in wholesale trauma erasure.



Nevertheless, I have listed celebrities of both movements as NLP
endorsing celebrities because Scientology and Dianetic endorsing
celebrities are not famous for practicing Dianetics.



Celebrity endorsement.



NLP



Paul McKenna (Stage hypnotist and prolific author)

Derren Brown (skeptic and NLP) This man is either the most terrifying
human being on the planet or as big a fraud as LRH.



Mystery (Pick Up Artist of astonishing skill) TV celebrity and stage
magician.

Style (Pick Up Artist, prolific writer) Runs the Style academy.



Anthony Robbins (motivational speaker and self help author.)





Dianetics and Scientology.



Tom Cruse (fading actor)

John Travolta (actor, and a much nicer guy than TC)

Juliet Lewis (actress, not bad)

The voice of Bart Simson!





The first thing we notice is that the NLP celebrities are famous for
promoting NLP- a subject with genuine popular appeal.



All of the Scientology stars are beginning to age (something that
happens quite quickly in Hollwood). They are all nearing their sell-by
dates.



To my knowledge no NLP promoting celebrity has ever blown from the
movement and made a film condeming the whole movement as a fraud.
Jason Beghe (a former Scientologist has done just this and his account
is due to be published on Xenu TV later on today.



I must therefore declare NLP the winner of the Celebrity round despite
the fact that NLP celebrities seem to be largely UK based and less
globally recognised than Hollywood actors.


Then we come to book sales. Dianetics is heavily promoted in all sorts
of ways and yet very few copies are sold (even fewer are read).

The cult make all sorts of fantastic claims such as ten million copies
sold- yet the book is not available in mainstream bookshops. If the
book really were the bestseller the cult claim, then bookshops would
want a piece of the action and would stock it.

Just how were these books supposed to have been sold? Through official
Scinetology bookshops? There cannot be more than one hundred of these
worldwide. This translates as 100,000 books per bookshop. Clearly
nonsense.

We must therefore declare NLP the winner on books and tapes- at least
until we have more information.

So.. NLP is out promoting Diantics at every turn- and yet Dianetics as
the more impressive promotional materials and introductory films.
Dianetics has purpose built course rooms.

This might seem to indicate that Dianetics is better at converting
initial interest to expensive courses and I think this is accurate.

Judging by postings on the newsgroup alt.psycology.nlp there are an
average of ten new NLP practitioners (not NLP masters, these are
introductory courses) produced each month in the London area. Very few
of these go on to practice NLP for a living. It is probably an NLP
equivalent to becoming a Book One auditor. By this measure, the Church
if Scientology is winning the war against NLP- at least for the time
being. London has two centers capable of delivering Book One Auditor
training and I would guess that the total number of graduates is
greater- but not by much.

This is all very well, but it does not indicate how much NLP has been
able damage Dianetics as a recruitment tool. How much is NLP hurting
the Church in the pocket?

All numbers are estimates here. Please feel free to correct me.

Ten NLP completions a month. It is reasonable to assume that five of
these completions are from people who would otherwise have chosen
Dianetics.

Assumed average profit per Book One Auditor- £500 (very conservative).

£500 x 5 =£2500 per month.

£2500 x 12 = £30,000 pa loss of income from NLP activity.

This is in the London area alone.

In addition to this we also have the fact that NLP promotes something
called 'presuppositions' that directly contradict Dianetics at every
point. These ideas have become widely accepted and prevent Dianetics
from entering the mainstream.

The total cost of NLP to the Church of Scientology is therefore many
times greater than the measurable cash cost

Who will win the war? I cannot tell- but NLP seems to have drawn first
blood.

HellBwat

On Apr 17, 6:10 am, Richard Ford <carnivalofreact...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

nlp is bullshit, I have no idea about dianetic's, one because I don't
care, two because I know very little about them and still don't care
to know anything about them.

Read this link on nlp

http://donaldclarkplanb.blogspot.com...-plausibe.html


Tim









> I have spent some time looking into the NLP movement and contrasting
> it with Dianetics.
>
> Comparing these two is the ultimate in comparing apples and oranges-
> but the very difficulty in doing so is educational in itself.
>
> NLP is not a centralised military style organization in the model of
> the Church of Scientology. Anybody may contribute to this body of
> knowledge and so it is sometimes difficult to know where it begins and
> where it ends.
>
> For the purposes of this comparison I eliminated every part of the
> movement that is not in direct conflict with Dianetics.
>
> This means I will not count the activities of the Pick Up Artists who
> use NLP to seduce women (a claim that LRH really should have made for
> Dianetics).
>
> I am also eliminating motivational speakers such as Anthony Robbins
> because they use the principles of NLP to break bad habits but do not
> engage in wholesale trauma erasure.
>
> Nevertheless, I have listed celebrities of both movements as NLP
> endorsing celebrities because Scientology and Dianetic endorsing
> celebrities are not famous for practicing Dianetics.
>
> Celebrity endorsement.
>
> NLP
>
> Paul McKenna (Stage hypnotist and prolific author)
>
> Derren Brown (skeptic and NLP) This man is either the most terrifying
> human being on the planet or as big a fraud as LRH.
>
> Mystery (Pick Up Artist of astonishing skill) TV celebrity and stage
> magician.
>
> Style (Pick Up Artist, prolific writer) Runs the Style academy.
>
> Anthony Robbins (motivational speaker and self help author.)
>
> Dianetics and Scientology.
>
> Tom Cruse (fading actor)
>
> John Travolta (actor, and a much nicer guy than TC)
>
> Juliet Lewis (actress, not bad)
>
> The voice of Bart Simson!
>
> The first thing we notice is that the NLP celebrities are famous for
> promoting NLP- a subject with genuine popular appeal.
>
> All of the Scientology stars are beginning to age (something that
> happens quite quickly in Hollwood). They are all nearing their sell-by
> dates.
>
> To my knowledge no NLP promoting celebrity has ever blown from the
> movement and made a film condeming the whole movement as a fraud.
> Jason Beghe (a former Scientologist has done just this and his account
> is due to be published on Xenu TV later on today.
>
> I must therefore declare NLP the winner of the Celebrity round despite
> the fact that NLP celebrities seem to be largely UK based and less
> globally recognised than Hollywood actors.
>
> Then we come to book sales. Dianetics is heavily promoted in all sorts
> of ways and yet very few copies are sold (even fewer are read).
>
> The cult make all sorts of fantastic claims such as ten million copies
> sold- yet the book is not available in mainstream bookshops. If the
> book really were the bestseller the cult claim, then bookshops would
> want a piece of the action and would stock it.
>
> Just how were these books supposed to have been sold? Through official
> Scinetology bookshops? There cannot be more than one hundred of these
> worldwide. This translates as 100,000 books per bookshop. Clearly
> nonsense.
>
> We must therefore declare NLP the winner on books and tapes- at least
> until we have more information.
>
> So.. NLP is out promoting Diantics at every turn- and yet Dianetics as
> the more impressive promotional materials and introductory films.
> Dianetics has purpose built course rooms.
>
> This might seem to indicate that Dianetics is better at converting
> initial interest to expensive courses and I think this is accurate.
>
> Judging by postings on the newsgroup alt.psycology.nlp there are an
> average of ten new NLP practitioners (not NLP masters, these are
> introductory courses) produced each month in the London area. Very few
> of these go on to practice NLP for a living. It is probably an NLP
> equivalent to becoming a Book One auditor. By this measure, the Church
> if Scientology is winning the war against NLP- at least for the time
> being. London has two centers capable of delivering Book One Auditor
> training and I would guess that the total number of graduates is
> greater- but not by much.
>
> This is all very well, but it does not indicate how much NLP has been
> able damage Dianetics as a recruitment tool. How much is NLP hurting
> the Church in the pocket?
>
> All numbers are estimates here. Please feel free to correct me.
>
> Ten NLP completions a month. It is reasonable to assume that five of
> these completions are from people who would otherwise have chosen
> Dianetics.
>
> Assumed average profit per Book One Auditor- £500 (very conservative).
>
> £500 x 5 =£2500 per month.
>
> £2500 x 12 = £30,000 pa loss of income from NLP activity.
>
> This is in the London area alone.
>
> In addition to this we also have the fact that NLP promotes something
> called 'presuppositions' that directly contradict Dianetics at every
> point. These ideas have become widely accepted and prevent Dianetics
> from entering the mainstream.
>
> The total cost of NLP to the Church of Scientology is therefore many
> times greater than the measurable cash cost
>
> Who will win the war? I cannot tell- but NLP seems to have drawn first
> blood.

Richard Ford

On 17 Apr, 15:04, HellBwat <monsterbra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 6:10 am, Richard Ford <carnivalofreact...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> nlp is bullshit, I have no idea about dianetic's, one because I don't
> care, two because I know very little about them and still don't care
> to know anything about them.
>
> Read this link on nlp
>
> http://donaldclarkplanb.blogspot.com...-plausibe.html
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Tim
>
>
>
> > I have spent some time looking into the NLP movement and contrasting
> > it with Dianetics.
>
> > Comparing these two is the ultimate in comparing apples and oranges-
> > but the very difficulty in doing so is educational in itself.
>
> > NLP is not a centralised military style organization in the model of
> > the Church of Scientology. Anybody may contribute to this body of
> > knowledge and so it is sometimes difficult to know where it begins and
> > where it ends.
>
> > For the purposes of this comparison I eliminated every part of the
> > movement that is not in direct conflict with Dianetics.
>
> > This means I will not count the activities of the Pick Up Artists who
> > use NLP to seduce women (a claim that LRH really should have made for
> > Dianetics).
>
> > I am also eliminating motivational speakers such as Anthony Robbins
> > because they use the principles of NLP to break bad habits but do not
> > engage in wholesale trauma erasure.
>
> > Nevertheless, I have listed celebrities of both movements as NLP
> > endorsing celebrities because Scientology and Dianetic endorsing
> > celebrities are not famous for practicing Dianetics.
>
> > Celebrity endorsement.
>
> > NLP
>
> > Paul McKenna (Stage hypnotist and prolific author)
>
> > Derren Brown (skeptic and NLP) This man is either the most terrifying
> > human being on the planet or as big a fraud as LRH.
>
> > Mystery (Pick Up Artist of astonishing skill) TV celebrity and stage
> > magician.
>
> > Style (Pick Up Artist, prolific writer) Runs the Style academy.
>
> > Anthony Robbins (motivational speaker and self help author.)
>
> > Dianetics and Scientology.
>
> > Tom Cruse (fading actor)
>
> > John Travolta (actor, and a much nicer guy than TC)
>
> > Juliet Lewis (actress, not bad)
>
> > The voice of Bart Simson!
>
> > The first thing we notice is that the NLP celebrities are famous for
> > promoting NLP- a subject with genuine popular appeal.
>
> > All of the Scientology stars are beginning to age (something that
> > happens quite quickly in Hollwood). They are all nearing their sell-by
> > dates.
>
> > To my knowledge no NLP promoting celebrity has ever blown from the
> > movement and made a film condeming the whole movement as a fraud.
> > Jason Beghe (a former Scientologist has done just this and his account
> > is due to be published on Xenu TV later on today.
>
> > I must therefore declare NLP the winner of the Celebrity round despite
> > the fact that NLP celebrities seem to be largely UK based and less
> > globally recognised than Hollywood actors.
>
> > Then we come to book sales. Dianetics is heavily promoted in all sorts
> > of ways and yet very few copies are sold (even fewer are read).
>
> > The cult make all sorts of fantastic claims such as ten million copies
> > sold- yet the book is not available in mainstream bookshops. If the
> > book really were the bestseller the cult claim, then bookshops would
> > want a piece of the action and would stock it.
>
> > Just how were these books supposed to have been sold? Through official
> > Scinetology bookshops? There cannot be more than one hundred of these
> > worldwide. This translates as 100,000 books per bookshop. Clearly
> > nonsense.
>
> > We must therefore declare NLP the winner on books and tapes- at least
> > until we have more information.
>
> > So.. NLP is out promoting Diantics at every turn- and yet Dianetics as
> > the more impressive promotional materials and introductory films.
> > Dianetics has purpose built course rooms.
>
> > This might seem to indicate that Dianetics is better at converting
> > initial interest to expensive courses and I think this is accurate.
>
> > Judging by postings on the newsgroup alt.psycology.nlp there are an
> > average of ten new NLP practitioners (not NLP masters, these are
> > introductory courses) produced each month in the London area. Very few
> > of these go on to practice NLP for a living. It is probably an NLP
> > equivalent to becoming a Book One auditor. By this measure, the Church
> > if Scientology is winning the war against NLP- at least for the time
> > being. London has two centers capable of delivering Book One Auditor
> > training and I would guess that the total number of graduates is
> > greater- but not by much.
>
> > This is all very well, but it does not indicate how much NLP has been
> > able damage Dianetics as a recruitment tool. How much is NLP hurting
> > the Church in the pocket?
>
> > All numbers are estimates here. Please feel free to correct me.
>
> > Ten NLP completions a month. It is reasonable to assume that five of
> > these completions are from people who would otherwise have chosen
> > Dianetics.
>
> > Assumed average profit per Book One Auditor- £500 (very conservative).
>
> > £500 x 5 =£2500 per month.
>
> > £2500 x 12 = £30,000 pa loss of income from NLP activity.
>
> > This is in the London area alone.
>
> > In addition to this we also have the fact that NLP promotes something
> > called 'presuppositions' that directly contradict Dianetics at every
> > point. These ideas have become widely accepted and prevent Dianetics
> > from entering the mainstream.
>
> > The total cost of NLP to the Church of Scientology is therefore many
> > times greater than the measurable cash cost
>
> > Who will win the war? I cannot tell- but NLP seems to have drawn first
> > blood.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks mate, it is possible you have saved me much time.

HellBwat

On Apr 17, 9:53 am, Richard Ford <carnivalofreact...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:


If you want to see one of the orginal founding members of nlp perform
nlp, unsuccessfully I might add, with a woman, I can post the links,
if this is the best nlp has to offer, then it is not much at all.


Tim
>
> Thanks mate, it is possible you have saved me much time.

Otto Huber

"HellBwat" <monsterbrat49@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:7e970b5f-9635-4f04-b4a0-9e4351adc47e@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 17, 9:53 am, Richard Ford <carnivalofreact...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
> If you want to see one of the orginal founding members of nlp perform
> nlp, unsuccessfully I might add, with a woman, I can post the links,
> if this is the best nlp has to offer, then it is not much at all.
>
>
> Tim

Post them, please ...

HellBwat

On Apr 18, 6:02 am, "Otto Huber" <hko...@gmx.de> wrote:

This is richard bandler trying to help a woman over come some
problems, pay particular attention to his calibration skills, and also
her responses to the stimuli she is introduced too.

Then he keeps trying to convince her that change takes time, it
doesn't when change happens it happens fast, as you'll note in this
web page.

http://www.essential-skills.com/ Listen to the video, It can't be
this easy.


So then, if richard is performing nlp

and that is an example of nlp, then nlp sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s941m...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RczTT...eature=related

>
> Post them, please ...