bornfree

Hi.

I am looking for an NLP "practitioner" in London, England, to help me
overcome a social fear that I have tried many times in the past to
overcome, but with frustratingly slow results.

When looking for an NLP practitioner, how should I decide who is best
for me? What criteria should I use?

I will be very grateful of any helpful input advice.
Thank you.

Nick Kemp

On 22 Jun, 12:19, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I am looking for an NLP "practitioner" in London, England, to help me
> overcome a social fear that I have tried many times in the past to
> overcome, but with frustratingly slow results.
>
> When looking for an NLP practitioner, how should I decide who is best
> for me? What criteria should I use?
>
> I will be very grateful of any helpful input advice.
> Thank you.

Take a look at www.justbewell.com as most practitioners on there have
10+ years experience.

My advice is to talk to a few people and ten make up your own mind
about who to see.

Regards

Nick Kemp
www.nickkemp.com

Novice

find a proper hypnotherapist or cognitive behavour therapist - NLP only uses
techniques "borrowed" from other maintream psychological therapies.

There is no evidence based foundation for NLP but there is for hypnotherapy
or techniques.

Nick Kemp

On 22 Jun, 13:52, "Novice" <tobeornott...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> find a proper hypnotherapist or cognitive behavour therapist - NLP only uses
> techniques "borrowed" from other maintream psychological therapies.
>
> There is no evidence based foundation for NLP but there is for hypnotherapy
> or techniques.

I work alongside many psychotherapists, councellors and
hypnotherapists and we often joke about the subjectivity of what
people call "evidence based foundations!" I see around 400 private
clients a year and a high proportion have tried CBT without any
success. Of course all approaches have limitations and of course NLP
modelled other therapists and in many caes produces excellent results,
depending on the skill of the practitioner. I know its a small detail,
but the poster asked for advice on finding an NLP practitioner on this
NLP ng. Personally I use NLP, Hypnosis and other approaches in client
work and although I teach NLP, no single approach ("evidence based" or
otherwise) provides total solutions

LOL

Novice

Well whilst it is alleged that they modelled Milton Erickson's "indirect"
forms of hypnosis:

- there is scant evidence that they did so;

- there is no evidence of alleged studies which would have been needed to
develop their theories about PRS ,nothing published academically;

- Erickson did not support the use of hypnosis by "laymen";

- Erickson's use of "indirect hypnosis" was actually less successful than
when he used direct hypnosis.

- Dave Elman, a contemporary of Erickson achieved similar outcomes without
using indirect hypnosis;

- a 1996 Austrian study of 37 NLP Master Practitioner using NLP based
psychotherapy found that sessions varied from 1 to 48, averaged 12, and were
49%-52% successful at follow up. This is not significantly greater than the
placebo effect after short term therapy.

- although it is reported that "The Structure of Magic" is based on
Bandler's "doctorate thesis" he obtained no doctorate as a result of that or
any other academic work.

What is there from NLP which isn't derived from other established and
scientifically validated therapies?

Nick Kemp

On 22 Jun, 17:13, "Novice" <tobeornott...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Well whilst it is alleged that they modelled Milton Erickson's "indirect"
> forms of hypnosis:
>
> - there is scant evidence that they did so;
>
> - there is no evidence of alleged studies which would have been needed to
> develop their theories about PRS ,nothing published academically;
>
> - Erickson did not support the use of hypnosis by "laymen";
>
> - Erickson's use of "indirect hypnosis" was actually less successful than
> when he used direct hypnosis.
>
> - Dave Elman, a contemporary of Erickson achieved similar outcomes without
> using indirect hypnosis;
>
> - a 1996 Austrian study of 37 NLP Master Practitioner using NLP based
> psychotherapy found that sessions varied from 1 to 48, averaged 12, and were
> 49%-52% successful at follow up. This is not significantly greater than the
> placebo effect after short term therapy.
>
> - although it is reported *that "The Structure of Magic" is based on
> Bandler's "doctorate thesis" he obtained no doctorate as a result of thator
> any other academic work.
>
> What is there from NLP which isn't derived from other established and
> scientifically validated therapies?

maybe you could start a new thread for anyone wanting to discuss this
aspect?

The poster's question was about NLP practitioners in the UK, not about
the origin or perceived validity of NLP!

bornfree

On 22 Jun, 13:49, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 22 Jun, 12:19, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi.
>
> > I am looking for an NLP "practitioner" in London, England, to help me
> > overcome a social fear that I have tried many times in the past to
> > overcome, but with frustratingly slow results.
>
> > When looking for an NLP practitioner, how should I decide who is best
> > for me? What criteria should I use?
>
> > I will be very grateful of any helpful input advice.
> > Thank you.
>
> Take a look atwww.justbewell.comas most practitioners on there have
> 10+ years experience.

I have been to the website. I'll contact all 3 of them. Thanks Nick.

Any ideas how much I should aim to pay in London? £150/ hour or
thereabouts is a big investment for me, but if it represents good
value, in terms of results, I will go for it.

Nick Kemp

On 22 Jun, 18:34, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
> On 22 Jun, 13:49, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 22 Jun, 12:19, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi.
>
> > > I am looking for an NLP "practitioner" in London, England, to help me
> > > overcome a social fear that I have tried many times in the past to
> > > overcome, but with frustratingly slow results.
>
> > > When looking for an NLP practitioner, how should I decide who is best
> > > for me? What criteria should I use?
>
> > > I will be very grateful of any helpful input advice.
> > > Thank you.
>
> > Take a look atwww.justbewell.comasmost practitioners on there have
> > 10+ years experience.
>
> I have been to the website. I'll contact all 3 of them. Thanks Nick.
>
> Any ideas how much I should aim to pay in London? £150/ hour or
> thereabouts is a big investment for me, but if it represents good
> value, in terms of results, I will go for it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't know about pricing, but I always advise people to talk to any
practitioner in advance and satisfy their own questions before
proceeding. I'm not a great fan of academia and "scientific" study as
I have seen scores of clients who were treated by highly qualified
therapists all with excellent paper qualifications, but who frequently
were not able to affect useful change for te client. The record to
date is an individual who had 1500 psychotherapy sessions from a
number of "highly qualified professionals" but (from his perspective)
without any useful change. There are of course excellent CBTers and
other therapists out there, but making genera LIE sations on block
about any approach is a tad simplistic and convenient

(:

Nick Kemp
www.nickkemp.com

Greg Wormald

In article
<0eef9ed3-85c7-46ba-8cc7-175a69ee8edb@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Nick Kemp <nickkempinfo@googlemail.com> wrote:

>
> I don't know about pricing, but I always advise people to talk to any
> practitioner in advance and satisfy their own questions before
> proceeding. I'm not a great fan of academia and "scientific" study as
> I have seen scores of clients who were treated by highly qualified
> therapists all with excellent paper qualifications, but who frequently
> were not able to affect useful change for te client. The record to
> date is an individual who had 1500 psychotherapy sessions from a
> number of "highly qualified professionals" but (from his perspective)
> without any useful change. There are of course excellent CBTers and
> other therapists out there, but making genera LIE sations on block
> about any approach is a tad simplistic and convenient
>
> (:
>
> Nick Kemp
> www.nickkemp.com

Agreed.
For those interested in actual change, you might want to hunt up a copy
of "Encounter Groups--First Facts". One fascinating result of this
research was that positive results depended on the therapist and their
relationship with the client, and was not related to the theory or
theories they espoused.
Greg

bornfree

On 22 Jun, 19:03, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 22 Jun, 18:34, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 22 Jun, 13:49, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 22 Jun, 12:19, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Hi.
>
> > > > I am looking for an NLP "practitioner" in London, England, to help me
> > > > overcome a social fear that I have tried many times in the past to
> > > > overcome, but with frustratingly slow results.
>
> > > > When looking for an NLP practitioner, how should I decide who is best
> > > > for me? What criteria should I use?
>
> > > > I will be very grateful of any helpful input advice.
> > > > Thank you.
>
> > > Take a look atwww.justbewell.comasmostpractitioners on there have
> > > 10+ years experience.
>
> > I have been to the website. I'll contact all 3 of them. Thanks Nick.
>
> > Any ideas how much I should aim to pay in London? £150/ hour or
> > thereabouts is a big investment for me, but if it represents good
> > value, in terms of results, I will go for it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I don't know about pricing, but I always advise people to talk to any
> practitioner in advance and satisfy their own questions before
> proceeding. I'm not a great fan of academia and "scientific" study as
> I have seen scores of clients who were treated by highly qualified
> therapists all with excellent paper qualifications, but who frequently
> were not able to affect useful change for te client. The record to
> date is an individual who had 1500 psychotherapy sessions from a
> number of "highly qualified professionals" but (from his perspective)
> without any useful change. There are of course excellent CBTers and
> other therapists out there, but making genera LIE sations on block
> about any approach is a tad simplistic and convenient

Oh, damn. =(

Nick Kemp

On 22 Jun, 22:57, Greg Wormald <g...@not.myaddress.com> wrote:
> In article
> <0eef9ed3-85c7-46ba-8cc7-175a69ee8...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> *Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I don't know about pricing, but I always advise people to talk to any
> > practitioner in advance and satisfy their own questions before
> > proceeding. I'm not a great fan of academia and "scientific" study as
> > I have seen scores of clients who were treated by highly qualified
> > therapists all with excellent paper qualifications, but who frequently
> > were not able to affect useful change for te client. The record to
> > date is an individual who had 1500 psychotherapy sessions from a
> > number of "highly qualified professionals" but (from his perspective)
> > without any useful change. There are of course excellent CBTers and
> > other therapists out there, but making genera LIE sations on block
> > about any approach is a tad simplistic and convenient
>
> > (:
>
> > Nick Kemp
> >www.nickkemp.com
>
> Agreed.
> For those interested in actual change, you might want to hunt up a copy
> of "Encounter Groups--First Facts". One fascinating result of this
> research was that positive results depended on the therapist and their
> relationship with the client, and was not related to the theory or
> theories they espoused.
> Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Frank Farrelly makes this exact same point and has many hysterical
stories about the academic community wanting to regulate different
approaches and the many fights he had when working in mental health in
the USA! He of course trained originally with Carl Rodgers

John

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:23:53 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
<justyouandme@xemaps.com> wrote:

>On 22 Jun, 19:03, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> On 22 Jun, 18:34, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 22 Jun, 13:49, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On 22 Jun, 12:19, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > Hi.
>>
>> > > > I am looking for an NLP "practitioner" in London, England, to help me
>> > > > overcome a social fear that I have tried many times in the past to
>> > > > overcome, but with frustratingly slow results.
>>
>> > > > When looking for an NLP practitioner, how should I decide who is best
>> > > > for me? What criteria should I use?
>>
>> > > > I will be very grateful of any helpful input advice.
>> > > > Thank you.
>>
>> > > Take a look atwww.justbewell.comasmostpractitioners on there have
>> > > 10+ years experience.
>>
>> > I have been to the website. I'll contact all 3 of them. Thanks Nick.
>>
>> > Any ideas how much I should aim to pay in London? £150/ hour or
>> > thereabouts is a big investment for me, but if it represents good
>> > value, in terms of results, I will go for it.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> I don't know about pricing, but I always advise people to talk to any
>> practitioner in advance and satisfy their own questions before
>> proceeding. I'm not a great fan of academia and "scientific" study as
>> I have seen scores of clients who were treated by highly qualified
>> therapists all with excellent paper qualifications, but who frequently
>> were not able to affect useful change for te client. The record to
>> date is an individual who had 1500 psychotherapy sessions from a
>> number of "highly qualified professionals" but (from his perspective)
>> without any useful change. There are of course excellent CBTers and
>> other therapists out there, but making genera LIE sations on block
>> about any approach is a tad simplistic and convenient
>
>Oh, damn. =(

LOL. So there are no silver bullets then?

What it means is you have to do some work before you do the work.
But then as it's your life we are talking about here it has to be
worth it, yes?

You may also find that the act seeking an effective practitioner
starts to address the original issue as well.

Good Luck.

--
John

bornfree

On 23 Jun, 09:37, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:23:53 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
>
>
>
> <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
> >On 22 Jun, 19:03, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> On 22 Jun, 18:34, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On 22 Jun, 13:49, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > On 22 Jun, 12:19, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > Hi.
>
> >> > > > I am looking for an NLP "practitioner" in London, England, to help me
> >> > > > overcome a social fear that I have tried many times in the past to
> >> > > > overcome, but with frustratingly slow results.
>
> >> > > > When looking for an NLP practitioner, how should I decide who isbest
> >> > > > for me? What criteria should I use?
>
> >> > > > I will be very grateful of any helpful input advice.
> >> > > > Thank you.
>
> >> > > Take a look atwww.justbewell.comasmostpractitionerson there have
> >> > > 10+ years experience.
>
> >> > I have been to the website. I'll contact all 3 of them. Thanks Nick.
>
> >> > Any ideas how much I should aim to pay in London? £150/ hour or
> >> > thereabouts is a big investment for me, but if it represents good
> >> > value, in terms of results, I will go for it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> I don't know about pricing, but I always advise people to talk to any
> >> practitioner in advance and satisfy their own questions before
> >> proceeding. I'm not a great fan of academia and "scientific" study as
> >> I have seen scores of clients who were treated by highly qualified
> >> therapists all with excellent paper qualifications, but who frequently
> >> were not able to affect useful change for te client. The record to
> >> date is an individual who had 1500 psychotherapy sessions from a
> >> number of "highly qualified professionals" but (from his perspective)
> >> without any useful change. There are of course excellent CBTers and
> >> other therapists out there, but making genera LIE sations on block
> >> about any approach is a tad simplistic and convenient
>
> >Oh, damn. =(
>
> LOL. So there are no silver bullets then?
>
> What it means is you have to do some work before you do the work.
> But then as it's your life we are talking about here it has to be
> worth it, yes?
>
> You may also find that the act seeking an effective practitioner
> starts to address the original issue as well.
>

Thanks. The original issue is making the first move in relationships
(with women). Pretty much just discussing it has me filling up with
adrenaline. It bothers me a lot because there are many times in the
past when I have "clicked" with someone, and it went nowhere because I
was scared. Which is embarrassing. I shared the problem with a female
friend, who replied "scared, like a teenager?". The indignation and
discomfort I felt upon hearing this will explain why I didn't put the
details in the first post.

Do you think Hypnotherapy / NLP could help me with this problem? I am
familiar with the idea that "doing the fear" is the best way. The only
trouble is, I have confronted it, and it still makes me tremble.

John

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:39:59 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
<justyouandme@xemaps.com> wrote:

>On 23 Jun, 09:37, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:23:53 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
>>
>>
>>
>> <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>> >On 22 Jun, 19:03, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> On 22 Jun, 18:34, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > On 22 Jun, 13:49, Nick Kemp <nickkempi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > > On 22 Jun, 12:19, bornfree <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > Hi.
>>
>> >> > > > I am looking for an NLP "practitioner" in London, England, to help me
>> >> > > > overcome a social fear that I have tried many times in the past to
>> >> > > > overcome, but with frustratingly slow results.
>>
>> >> > > > When looking for an NLP practitioner, how should I decide who is best
>> >> > > > for me? What criteria should I use?
>>
>> >> > > > I will be very grateful of any helpful input advice.
>> >> > > > Thank you.
>>
>> >> > > Take a look atwww.justbewell.comasmostpractitionerson there have
>> >> > > 10+ years experience.
>>
>> >> > I have been to the website. I'll contact all 3 of them. Thanks Nick.
>>
>> >> > Any ideas how much I should aim to pay in London? £150/ hour or
>> >> > thereabouts is a big investment for me, but if it represents good
>> >> > value, in terms of results, I will go for it.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> I don't know about pricing, but I always advise people to talk to any
>> >> practitioner in advance and satisfy their own questions before
>> >> proceeding. I'm not a great fan of academia and "scientific" study as
>> >> I have seen scores of clients who were treated by highly qualified
>> >> therapists all with excellent paper qualifications, but who frequently
>> >> were not able to affect useful change for te client. The record to
>> >> date is an individual who had 1500 psychotherapy sessions from a
>> >> number of "highly qualified professionals" but (from his perspective)
>> >> without any useful change. There are of course excellent CBTers and
>> >> other therapists out there, but making genera LIE sations on block
>> >> about any approach is a tad simplistic and convenient
>>
>> >Oh, damn. =(
>>
>> LOL. So there are no silver bullets then?
>>
>> What it means is you have to do some work before you do the work.
>> But then as it's your life we are talking about here it has to be
>> worth it, yes?
>>
>> You may also find that the act seeking an effective practitioner
>> starts to address the original issue as well.
>>
>
>Thanks. The original issue is making the first move in relationships
>(with women). Pretty much just discussing it has me filling up with
>adrenaline. It bothers me a lot because there are many times in the
>past when I have "clicked" with someone, and it went nowhere because I
>was scared. Which is embarrassing. I shared the problem with a female
>friend, who replied "scared, like a teenager?". The indignation and
>discomfort I felt upon hearing this will explain why I didn't put the
>details in the first post.
>
>Do you think Hypnotherapy / NLP could help me with this problem? I am
>familiar with the idea that "doing the fear" is the best way. The only
>trouble is, I have confronted it, and it still makes me tremble.

It sounds more like anxiety to me rather than fear and a competent
practitioner will be able to help I'm sure.

--
John

bornfree

On 23 Jun, 12:59, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:39:59 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
> >Thanks. The original issue is making the first move in relationships
> >(with women). Pretty much just discussing it has me filling up with
> >adrenaline. It bothers me a lot because there are many times in the
> >past when I have "clicked" with someone, and it went nowhere because I
> >was scared. Which is embarrassing. I shared the problem with a female
> >friend, who replied "scared, like a teenager?". The indignation and
> >discomfort I felt upon hearing this will explain why I didn't put the
> >details in the first post.
>
> >Do you think Hypnotherapy / NLP could help me with this problem? I am
> >familiar with the idea that "doing the fear" is the best way. The only
> >trouble is, I have confronted it, and it still makes me tremble.
>
> It sounds more like anxiety to me rather than fear and a competent
> practitioner will be able to help I'm sure.
>

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

In my search I have had a 20 min chat with the first practitioner,
Ewan, on the list here.

http://www.inspire360.co.uk/founders.php

I liked him and might employ him.

If there is any other advice anyone can offer me in relation to
employing Ewan or one of the other practitioners on that page, I would
be grateful. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thanks to everyone who replied!

John

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:18:52 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
<justyouandme@xemaps.com> wrote:

>On 23 Jun, 12:59, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:39:59 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
>> >Thanks. The original issue is making the first move in relationships
>> >(with women). Pretty much just discussing it has me filling up with
>> >adrenaline. It bothers me a lot because there are many times in the
>> >past when I have "clicked" with someone, and it went nowhere because I
>> >was scared. Which is embarrassing. I shared the problem with a female
>> >friend, who replied "scared, like a teenager?". The indignation and
>> >discomfort I felt upon hearing this will explain why I didn't put the
>> >details in the first post.
>>
>> >Do you think Hypnotherapy / NLP could help me with this problem? I am
>> >familiar with the idea that "doing the fear" is the best way. The only
>> >trouble is, I have confronted it, and it still makes me tremble.
>>
>> It sounds more like anxiety to me rather than fear and a competent
>> practitioner will be able to help I'm sure.
>>
>
>Thanks for the vote of confidence.
>
>In my search I have had a 20 min chat with the first practitioner,
>Ewan, on the list here.
>
>http://www.inspire360.co.uk/founders.php
>
>I liked him and might employ him.
>
>If there is any other advice anyone can offer me in relation to
>employing Ewan or one of the other practitioners on that page, I would
>be grateful. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
>
>Thanks to everyone who replied!

You may want to have a look at this forum which specialises in NLP and
ask you question again including thoughts about the Practitioner you
have choose. Someone there may know him or have a view.

http://www.nlpconnections.com/

--
John

bornfree

On 23 Jun, 19:53, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:18:52 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
>
>
>
> <justyouan...@xemaps.com> wrote:
> >On 23 Jun, 12:59, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:39:59 -0700 (PDT), bornfree
> >> >Thanks. The original issue is making the first move in relationships
> >> >(with women). Pretty much just discussing it has me filling up with
> >> >adrenaline. It bothers me a lot because there are many times in the
> >> >past when I have "clicked" with someone, and it went nowhere because I
> >> >was scared. Which is embarrassing. I shared the problem with a female
> >> >friend, who replied "scared, like a teenager?". The indignation and
> >> >discomfort I felt upon hearing this will explain why I didn't put the
> >> >details in the first post.
>
> >> >Do you think Hypnotherapy / NLP could help me with this problem? I am
> >> >familiar with the idea that "doing the fear" is the best way. The only
> >> >trouble is, I have confronted it, and it still makes me tremble.
>
> >> It sounds more like anxiety to me rather than fear and a competent
> >> practitioner will be able to help I'm sure.
>
> >Thanks for the vote of confidence.
>
> >In my search I have had a 20 min chat with the first practitioner,
> >Ewan, on the list here.
>
> >http://www.inspire360.co.uk/founders.php
>
> >I liked him and might employ him.
>
> >If there is any other advice anyone can offer me in relation to
> >employing Ewan or one of the other practitioners on that page, I would
> >be grateful. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
>
> >Thanks to everyone who replied!
>
> You may want to have a look at this forum which specialises in NLP and
> ask you question again including thoughts about the Practitioner you
> have choose. Someone there may know him or have a view.
>
> http://www.nlpconnections.com/
>

Thanks.